Episode 8: Sistahs in Entertainment Law
Charity Gates: [00:00:19] Hey, y'all! Thanks for tuning in for episode eight of the Sistahs in Law podcast. I'm your host Charity Gates. This is a podcast featuring intimate conversations with Black women in law. Every other week, we will listen to stories from Black women about their trials, triumphs and tribulations, navigating careers in the legal field.
This week, I have a conversation with the dynamic duo of entertainment lawyers. When I say these women are fun, you'll know what I mean before the end of the episode.
Maya Day, Esquire is an associate attorney at Br where she serves as production counsel, drafting talent and above the [00:01:00] line personnel agreements for production companies, such as BRON Studios, Jax Media, and A24. Maya has served as counsel for various television series and films, most recently, A Black Lady Sketch Show, Pieces of a Woman, Emily in Paris and D
Maya holds a BA from the George Washington University and a JD from Howard University School of Law. During her time at Howard Law School, she served as a Student Attorney in the Intellectual Property Clinic with a concentration in trademark law and served as the program coordinator for the Howard Law Sports and Entertainment Law Student Association. She also previously interned at BET Networks, the Federal Communications Commission and the DC Commission on the Arts and Humanities. Maya is an active member of the Black Entertainment and Sports Lawyers Association also known as BESLA Young Lawyers Division and Zeta Phi Beta Sorority Incorporated.
Taylor Washington [00:02:00] handles a broad range of entertainment transactions for clients in film and television including production companies, actors and actresses, producers, directors, authors, and influencers. Prior to joining Frankfurt Kurnit, Taylor was a law clerk for the NBC U News Group at NBC Universal Media, LLC where she served as a legal counsel for CNBC primetime programming, including Deal or No Deal, The Profit and Jay Leno's Garage.
She also advised and counseled business teams on other commercial transactions including venue and content licensing agreements. Additionally Taylor performed pre broadcast review of long form programming on CNBC, including Secret Lives of the Super Rich and advised on potential legal issues pertaining to privacy, defamation, libel, and intellectual property.
During law school, Taylor interned in the Enforcement Bureau at the Federal Communications Commission [00:03:00] and in the Business and Legal Affairs Department at Scripps Networks Interactive now Discovery Inc, where she worked with counsel to structure and draft production and talent agreement. Prior to law school, Taylor had extensive experience in the entertainment industry, including jobs and internships with the Creative Arts Agency, CAA The Recording Academy, Octagon and Viacom.
Taylor is a former member of the Hollywood Radio and Television Society Junior Board. And a current member of the New York State Bar Association and Metropolitan Black Bar Association. She is admitted to practice in New York.
Hello, Taylor and Maya. Welcome to the Sistahs in Law podcast.
[00:04:00]Maya Day: [00:04:00] Hello, thank you for having me.
Taylor Washington: [00:04:04] Hey Hey!
Charity Gates: [00:04:05] I can't wait to learn more about y'all's stories. It's amazing how the BESLA community connected us.
Maya Day: [00:04:12] Absolutely always, always BESLA babies in the building.
Charity Gates: [00:04:17] And for those of you who don't know what BESLA is, it's the Black Entertainment and Sports Lawyers Association. I know the legal industry, we have so many acronyms so just wanted to throw that out there for the audience. So, getting started, I usually like to start off the podcast with a get to know you kind of question. So what is your origin story and where are you and your people from? And either one of you can go in whenever you're available.
Maya Day: [00:04:45] Go ahead, Taylor.
Taylor Washington: [00:04:46] So my name is Taylor Washington. Thank you so much for having us today, Charity. Um, my story and where, where I come from. So I'm originally from Dallas, Texas. Funny enough, none of [00:05:00] my family is from Dallas. Both of my parents got their first job out of college in Texas and both moved to Texas and met there.
So I actually don't have much family there. My parents are, are from my dad's from Louisiana, little small country town called Opelousas and my mother is from Portsmouth, Virginia. So, I spent my childhood in Dallas and then migrated to Washington D.C., where I attended Howard University for college, and then went back for law school and then migrated some more to New York.
And now I'm living in New York City, specifically in Harlem world.
Charity Gates: [00:05:37] Shouts out to Harlem!
Maya Day: [00:05:38] Hi everyone! My name is Maya Day. And I would say that my origin story to start out at the basics, I'm the daughter of a now retired police officer and a teacher all from Newark, New Jersey, which is where I'm from. Shout outs to Brick City 9 73.
So I grew up in Newark born and raised, attended boarding school, actually prep [00:06:00] school in Maryland, right outside of Baltimore. So, left Jersey at 14, then went to Maryland, then went to GW for undergrad. So then I stayed in the DC area then after undergrad attended Howard Law. I feel like I'm kind of like split between, and now I'm back in Jersey cause our office is in New York. So I work out in New York, live in Jersey. And I'm back home. And yeah, I feel like, I don't know, I can't equally claim DC at this point because I wasn't born there, but like, it's looking like I was in the DMV for 11 years. So it's like a split split. But Jersey always has my heart and will always be kind of where I rep.
Charity Gates: [00:06:38] That's amazing. So much geographic diversity here!
Taylor Washington: [00:06:43] We making moves .
Charity Gates: [00:06:46] First of all, for the audience, can you tell us why you did decide to attend law school? And then why did you choose the school that you ended up going to?
Maya Day: [00:06:55] I honestly feel like I chose law school because I still [00:07:00] really love court television to be completely honest. So I love Judge Judy, Judge Hatchet, Judge Mablean all of them. I really wanted to be a lawyer and a judge based on what I saw on television. And so that's why I had decided to attend law school.
And then I did some internships in undergrad, actually, where I learned that I don't want to do like any type of prosecutorial or defense attorney work. And that's where I found my passion of entertainment, but my kind of intro and why I wanted to be there was based on court television.
And I chose to attend Howard Law really because I was interested in the HBCU experience. Of course, I feel like at GW it was a PWI and I felt like I was supported, but not in a way that I knew I would need for law school. And I knew from people who attended Howard Law, that that would be an excellent fit. And I haven't regret that decision since.
Taylor Washington: [00:07:53] So for me, I would say I actually fought off law school my entire life. [00:08:00]So just some background on me, I'm a second generation lawyer in my family. My dad is the first lawyer in my family. He practices in Texas where I'm from, and he's a civil rights lawyer. And my entire life, I've always looked up to my dad, but I always also didn't want to walk in his footsteps because as a child, like you just don't want to do what your parents tell you to do.
I just want to do the opposite to prove a point that I know what I'm doing. So I fought it off my entire life. He's like, you're going to go to law school and we're going to practice together and we're going to do this and do that. And I literally didn't want to be a lawyer just because he thought I would be a good lawyer.
And then I saw the crazy hours he was working and I saw how hard it was, I saw how tired he was. I was just like I can't do it. Can't do it. So it was maybe my junior year in college when I was attending Howard University, I interned at one of the biggest talent agencies, CAA Creative Artist Agencies. I was working in the New York office in the commercial endorsements department and I was working under an agent named Peter [00:09:00] Hess. And at the time I was working with the agents, I was kind of , um, getting a lot of experience just entertainment experience overall. He worked in the commercial endorsements and unlike other departments, the commercial endorsements department actually worked with every aspect of the business.
So commercial endorsements could touch TV people, film people, athletes, authors, musicians. And I was kind of getting that experience. I was, I was getting introduced to a lot of agents and from there I was realizing, okay, some of the agents had gone to law school, some of the agents hadn't. But for me, if I'm going to do anything, I want to be the best to do it and I want to be the most knowledgeable and I'm going to put myself in that situation. And so I decided, okay, well, at the time I thought I wanted to be an agent. I'm like, okay, well, you know what, I'm actually going to go to law school because I want to be an agent who has a law degree. So I went to law school with no intention of practicing whatsoever.
And then you get to law school and then you, you spend all this time, you spend all this money, you spend all this time, a lot of energy, a lot of emotions. And at the end of the day, you like, am I doing all of this to go to a [00:10:00] mailroom to work at a talent agency? Absolutely not! So , uh, law school kind of pushed me towards actually practicing entertainment law and not going the agent route because you just, for me, I did not go through all of that to come out and, you know, not make a lot of money and to not actually be doing the things that I prepared myself for for three years.
So that's kinda how I ended up going to law school. And then, once I got to law school kind of got different experience in the entertainment field outside of the experience that I received at the agency when I was at CAA. And just kind of fell in love with all different aspects of entertainment law.
As far as going to Howard Law, went to Howard undergrad. So I'm actually the complete opposite of Maya. I was like, Oh my gosh, I have to go to a PWI now. Like I can't go to an HBCU twice. And then at the time, when I was making the law school decision, I'd actually already accepted a job offer. And when I accepted that job offer, it was like a job that was travel 24/ 7. I was 100% travel for the [00:11:00] position.
And so I made a decision last minute during the summer, before I went to law school, that was not going to put it off a year and I was going to go. And then a girlfriend of mine from undergrad was going to law school as well. She had gotten into Howard, I had gotten into Howard, and a few other schools, but honestly just being a hundred percent travel, Howard actually just made sense because she was in DC while I was on the road and she was like, I'll find our place, I'll get us an apartment, I'll get us tours. Like I'll handle everything. You finish your job and then come back to us for school. And so it ended up working out, Howard gave me money that never hurts.
And honestly, I went back to Howard and I, I don't regret it because like most Howard undergraduate students I was having separation anxiety on graduation day and couldn't imagine a world, not like Howard. So to get my extra three years was amazing. And it wasn't necessarily that I didn't want to go to Howard then just wanted a a different experience, but you'll find when you go to a college twice that you do get two different experiences, the undergraduate experience and the graduate experience are two different experiences.
So very happy that I did that. And yeah.
[00:12:00] Charity Gates: [00:11:59] That's so inspiring, these origin stories of going into law school. But given the, wealth of experience and wisdom that you all have now, if you had any advice for yourself back in law school, what kind of advice would you give?
Maya Day: [00:12:15] I would say that I would tell myself, I guess, two things. The first being that basically all you need is within you. Meaning that like everything, the drive, the determination, everything that I need to succeed is a hundred percent within me. And I also would not worry about what anyone else is doing.
And I feel like between Taylor and I, we were pretty like determined and pretty good at that. But I feel like I would drill that into my head. You're interested in entertainment, like literally stay in your lane. And probably like, not even discuss plans even after graduating with anybody, because honestly, it was very few classmates who like, just get the entertainment journey.
So they're not able to kind of help [00:13:00] you in a positive way trying to navigate it. So just really saying to my, basically sticking to my own knowledge, network and staying in my own lane would have been what I told myself in law school.
Taylor Washington: [00:13:12] Yeah. It's, it's so funny because Maya and I, for those who don't know Maya and I were actually law school best friends and that's my girl.
So we actually have very, very close relationship. We kind of connected because we were both those 1 L's who got to law school and we knew exactly what we wanted to do. Most law students are figuring it out and that's totally fine, that's what law school really is. But we came in with a specific purpose and kind of knowing what our, what we wanted our journey to be not trying to discover what it was going to be.
And so similar to Maya, I was very, very determined to make this entertainment thing work, despite what people said and how people said I should approach my career. But like Maya, I would also say you have to come into law school and be head strong. Everybody knows what's best for your career in law school. Your [00:14:00] classmates know what's best for your career, career development knows what's best for your career, your professors know what's best for your career. Every lawyer out there you talk to is gonna know what's best for your career. That is not true. You have to be so strong in who you are, and you have to understand that advice is just that. It's advice.
It's not law. It's not what you have to do. It's somebody's opinion of what they think would work. And you have to take it for that. And you had some always remember at the end of the day, be true to yourself. You're going to get a lot of stuff from so many people. So many people are going to weigh in on what you should and should not be doing.
But ultimately at the end of the day, you're going to law school for yourself. You're putting yourself through a lot of emotional ups and downs. You're putting yourself into a lot of debt. You're giving up a lot of time in your life. You're sacrificing so much to do anything other than what feels right to you and not what somebody else told you you had to do in order to be a good lawyer or in order to make it in this industry.
And I think you'll learn it [00:15:00] even more. And I think that's why in hindsight, Maya and I can both kind of look back and say, we should have done this because you get out in the industry and you hear everybody's career journey and no career journey is the same. Literally! People are like, well, I started off at a big firm.
Oh, I started off as an assistant at this place. I started out as a contractor. I started off just working for myself. Like everybody has a different journey because there's only so many firms out here. There's only so many big firms out here. There's only so many places and so many spots that a lot of people have to figure out how to make it work.
Everybody can't go that big firm route that a lot of people tried to make others think is the only approach to a legal career. So like remember who you are, remember why you're going to law school. And even if you don't know exactly why nobody knows you better than you. So remember to listen to yourself in the midst of everybody else telling you what you should be doing.
Charity Gates: [00:15:47] Yeah. That was a word for real. Uh, I totally agree with that assessment. But since this episode is kind of focused around entertainment law, and you two are big entertainment [00:16:00] lawyers now and you're both working at reputable entertainment law firms. Can you describe your journey to landing these coveted positions and what you did to get there?
Maya Day: [00:16:13] Okay. I'll take that one first. I would say that my journey was very interesting because as Taylor can attest to, I was very anti law firm. And so was she. When we were in law school. We were both like, we're not going to law firms. We can do it our own way. And I graduated and had accepted a position actually with the DC Commission on the Arts and Humanities which is where I interned in DC in law school.
So I kind of had a job and wasn't really, you know. I wasn't seeking anything, I would just kind of let, letting things happen. And I, through weird chain of of events and blessings, I'd say. Through my my brother's girlfriend is the nanny to one of the partners at the firm where I work [00:17:00] now. And she made the kind of like introduction after hearing that, of course, over dinner, that he was interested in hiring a new associate.
And I kind of took the call and made the intro just out of like networking purposes and sent my resume in and he wanted to interview me for the position. So I did that. And immediately after hearing, like where I worked, because I had worked previously. My 2L year, I worked at BET in the New York business and legal affairs department.
And he had worked with my supervisor at the time Khadijah. And he called her up right after the interview and was like, who's this girl, like, tell me about her. We love her. Yada, yada, yada. She kind of sealed the deal on it, and they made the offer. So I kind of prayed on it, cause at the time again, I already had something. They wanted me to start in, like, I think it was like two to three weeks. I was still living in DC still in a lease. So, thankfully I was able to pack my stuff up, get out of my lease and I moved home actually because I'm in North Jersey, which is very close to the [00:18:00] city. So, I was able to live home until I figured things out.
And yeah, that's kind of how I got to this firm. So, you never really know where your position is going to land. You got to kinda tell any and everybody about to dreams and be nice to everyone. Cause you never know!
Charity Gates: [00:18:15] Right! What a crazy connection. I've never heard that kind of story, which goes back to Taylor's point about everybody's career journey is so different.
Maya Day: [00:18:25] Absolutely!
Taylor Washington: [00:18:26] And I love, love, love that Maya said be nice to everyone. If I could tell you that's one of the number one things you have to live by. It's so crazy. I mean, literally everyone. I mean the random person that you see on the street, you just don't know. You literally don't know despite the fact that you should just be a good person in general and be nice to people like it will still take you a long way. So I love that she said that. And just like everything else. I think Maya's like my, my career spirit animal. We literally just kind of had the same journey, which is why I think we connect so much. So initially when I graduated from law school it was [00:19:00] finding a job one was, was a very difficult and stressful thing for me.
So I, during law school, I interned at a place called Scripps Networks, which is now merged with Discovery. And at the time Scripps was the parent company for Food Network, Cooking Channel, HGTV , and all those other networks. And, and I worked there and I went there my 1 L summer. They asked me to come back my 2 L summer. And then after that summer, they had a small office. This was in New York. They had a small office in the DMV area. We spoke and they asked me to come back for the rest of my 3 L year and just work from the remote office and go in there and then basically communicate with them via like video calls and stuff.
So did that, and just like anybody in a position where you're continuously being asked to come back, I knew I had a job. I'm like, I know I'm not supposed to get a job out of this, but I feel it! They like me clearly. They keep asking me to come back. But like I said, 3 L year there was a merger and nothing was certain. People who had been there for 10, 20, 30 years didn't know if they were going [00:20:00] to have a job.
So I began to panic like most and started looking at other opportunities. I already was, cause again it wasn't for sure I was going to work there, but it seemed as if it was going to be a possibility because of my experience with them and because of our relationship. So started looking for jobs. Ultimately, during my entire bar summer, I was going out to New York every couple of weeks taking interviews. And literally, the Friday I think it was, less than a week before we sat for the bar exam, I got a call from NBC, giving me an offer to come in and be a law clerk specifically at CNBC working with CNBC Prime Time programming and took that job.
They made it very clear, this is a one-year role. It's really like a job that's intended to get your feet wet in the industry, give you some experience, but it's not really necessarily set up as a program that is preparing you for employment here. So ultimately it's like, it's one year and then you're out. It's possible to stay on, but it's not likely, and it's not a guarantee. So took the job. It was [00:21:00] great because like most people coming out of law school, they're working long hours, they're first-year associates at big firms. It was different for me because I was doing the one year clerkship.
So I was truly working as a nine to five, which gave me the opportunity to really like use my evenings to like do whatever I needed to do in the city. I was setting up coffee with people and drinks with people and dinner with people, and I was constantly networking. And it was one particular dinner that kind of was like the lead point for me going to this firm. But it was a former boss of mine, her name was Heather Hutchinson. And we connected and we kept in touch and we're going to have dinner just to catch up in the city. So met up with her, we had dinner and we kind of had the conversation that most people want to have when you're doing a one-year role, which is what's next?
So what's next for you? What are you thinking? And I was just like, honestly, I just need to be in entertainment. I'll go to a firm. I'll go in- house. I'll do whatever as long as I can go to entertainment. And she was like, no. I was like, no? What does she mean? I'm ambitious. I want to do anything. And she was just like, no, [00:22:00] what do you want to do?
She's like, that's not how you get a job. You don't get a job being open to anything. You get a job when you know what you want and you go after that with everything in you, so what do you want? If I were to give you the job that you wanted, and this was the number one place you could be, and there was no other place like this, what is the job that you want above anything else? And I'm like, honestly Heather , I have been flirting with the idea of working at Frankfurt Kurnit, that's the firm I'm currently at, working at Frankfurt Kurnit since I was in law school. I had gotten this in- house experience being at NBCU and it was just not what I expected.
I loved it. It was so amazing, but me being the type of person that I am, I needed more structure and more training in a more formal format. And that's what you'll get from the firm, because inherently that's how it's set up. It's set up to train lawyers. That's the type of place it is.
Those are the types of resources that they have. And so I told her, I'm like, honestly, I think that I want to go to a firm because I want to get one more formal training work format, but also I kind of want to be able to do everything. Right [00:23:00] now when you're at NBC. So it's a specific thing that they do, but I would love to go to a place where I could touch TV, where I could touch film, where I could do some book publishing or I could do some influencer deals or I can do some sports stuff.
I want to be somewhere that allows me to kind of fill it all out and truly figure out where I want to be before I box myself in. And so I'm like, honestly, ideally I would get a job as an associate at a place like Frankfurt Kurnit. Kid you not the very next day, Heather forwarded me a job opening that somebody sent to her for Frankfurt Kurnit for an associate position.
And she goes, this is why you tell people what you want. And this is why you're direct with what you want. And you're honest with yourself because had you not told me this the night before, I might not have sent this offer to you. I might not have known that you wanted to transition from in-house to a firm and I would have sent it over to somebody I knew was at a firm or was looking to go to another firm because I knew that for you, I've always known you wanted to be in house. I had no idea you actually had a desire to go to a firm. But because you were open and you were honest with yourself and you were fearless and you put out into the environment, what [00:24:00] exactly it was that you wanted it's coming back to you. You have to put it out there and you have to be fearless in saying it. You don't say it because you don't know if you're capable of achieving it and you're holding yourself back by not saying it. So still that wasn't enough. I got the interview. I went to Frankfurt Kurnit. So actually, the opening was not for an entertainment position.
It was for a position in the marketing and advertising group, which is not what I wanted to do. And so I went to the interview and I was kind of you know, talking to them and interviewing. And I was very interested in what they were doing and it sounded amazing, but at the same time, I was like, Oh, it doesn't necessarily sound entertainment and I would still love to do entertainment. I was very open and honest with them during the interview. I think that this is a great job. I'm very interested in what you all are doing, but would there also be a chance for me to kind of do this and a little bit of entertainment work at the same time.
And they were kind of just like, Hmm, that's not necessarily the setup of the firm. We are in groups, so you will be in a group and that's the type of work that you want to do. We do work with each other, but [00:25:00] it's not like you're just going to be in multiple groups, doing lots of different things.
And I'm like, okay. So, still talk to them about my entertainment experience. Talk to them about my desire to kind of do what they're doing and still get entertainment experience. And I guess at the end of the interview, they realized that I've really wanted to do entertainment work and that was more fitting for me.
And so they actually called up to the entertainment group. They called up because they were on different floors. So they call up the partners in the entertainment group and they said, Hey, we met this girl. She interviewed, we love her. She clearly wants to do entertainment work. You guys, are you interested in interviewing her?
And the entertainment group gave me a call and set up an interview, went through multiple rounds. And now I'm working there. And, two things from that is one don't be afraid to like be open to different things. Had I just blown off the marketing and advertising interview that I had, I would have never known that it could lead to them bringing me to the group that I wanted to be in. Or lead to them still helping me to get where I wanted to be. And also, it taught me a lot about honesty in job interviews. A lot of times people want to sneak into jobs [00:26:00] just to like get there and then they get in that job and then they'll figure out how to do what they really want to do.
But sometimes you also have to just be completely honest with what you want to do, because you don't know how that person could help you do that. And it seems scary cause you're like, well, will I not get the job if I'm honest? But like also it could just be the best thing that ever happened to your career, that you put it out there and now from putting it out there, you put somebody else in a position to help you get what you want. So yeah, that was kind of my journey to Frankfurt Kurnit.
Charity Gates: [00:26:24] So many gems here! I love this conversation. I'm like taking mental notes myself. Since entertainment law is kind of like this ambiguous field to most people, but it's also like a highly coveted field, can you describe to the audience what general tasks an entertainment law associate engages in and what a typical day looks like for entertainment associates?
Maya Day: [00:26:48] I feel like my day can look like any and everything at any given time. But in specific, what I do every day is we work with a lot of production companies and serve as production counsel for various [00:27:00] television shows and films. So we see the kind of production from the start to it's finish.
So we see the, the deal making, we help finalize deal terms, we paper everything. We make sure that the distributor has everything they need. We review scripts, review cuts, live taping of shows. One of the shows that I worked specifically on is Desus and Mero, and I watched that twice a week.
So yeah, it can be a lot of drafting at times. It can be fun, like I watch a lot of movies and things like that before they come out. And of course the live tapings are fun! And the deal-making is always something that you kind of get better with at time, but it can be fun, especially when, you know, you know opposing counsel and yeah. Sometimes it's research when it comes to the guilds. Production counsel can be kind of a bit of everything, but it's one of those things that makes the job kind of exciting and fun and also exposes you to a variety of different areas at the same time. So I feel like as I grew within this like two, two and a half year span, more than [00:28:00] some people grow within five to six years or five to seven years. So that's kind of one of the benefits of going to a firm and a firm that specifically deals with entertainment. You kind of get that, that training early on.
Taylor Washington: [00:28:13] So I, on the other hand pretty much deal with creatives. Those are the clients that I work with. So a creative can be anybody from a writer, a director, a producer, actor, or actress, an influencer, an author, a journalist you name it. We work with all those people. And what we tend to do is basically help them with their deal.
So we're negotiating the deals for all of the creatives, where we work with a lot of authors and rights holders and we're negotiating the deals for books to now be adapted into a television show or for a book to be adapted into a movie. We're working with writers who have written scripts, and now they're selling their scripts to networks and studios and production companies.
We're working with people who are talent who are coming [00:29:00] together and collaborating who have nothing done, but plan to come together and create. So what we do is we work with the people who are creating the stuff that's going on TV and film. And in addition to that, we also work with the production companies as well.
But I would say my, my work is primarily focused on the creatives who are coming up with the concepts and with the materials. And then the three things I tell people we do all day, my day pretty much consists of negotiating, drafting or reviewing. That's pretty much what I'm doing.
I'm on the phone talking through terms and talking out legal points and business points with people, or drafting an agreement on behalf of a client, a client who, has this idea now they want to collaborate with a production company that they met and they want to go out and pitch a show together. Or, or they want to come and agree to co-write a script together.
And then also reviewing the deals that are coming in. So a deal that comes in for let's say like a test roll. We have a lot of actors who will test for different roles for different TV shows and other audio visual [00:30:00] productions. And we'll review those documents and we'll review it for deal points and legal points, but those would be the, the large things that I do.
Maya Day: [00:30:08] And Taylor and I also are opposing counsel to each other often, but we get the deal done always
Taylor Washington: [00:30:14] Very often! I get excited when Maya Day's name comes up in my inbox. I'm like, we're going to get this done.
Charity Gates: [00:30:21] So it helps to have friends in law school then.
Taylor Washington: [00:30:25] It helps. It really helps.
Charity Gates: [00:30:27] Yeah, because the legal field is so tiny anyway. And then like Black women it's even more minuscule. And that kind of leads to the next question. Over the course of your career so far, how would you describe your journey as a Black woman in the entertainment law field? And what advice do you have for your fellow Sistahs in Law?
Maya Day: [00:30:47] I feel like it's honestly like my superpower. Like, I feel like I can tap into different spaces.
And I feel like given the network, of course, with BESLA or Diverse [00:31:00] Representation, all the like, you know, Black women who are out here getting it in the industry. I'm able to connect with them. And like, I haven't had a bad experience yet. So I feel like honestly I embrace it. I think oftentimes you are the only one in spaces in these rooms. And for me personally, I'm the only person of color at my firm. And for the longest time was the only woman at my firm. So I, I think that was a bit challenging at the beginning, but now when I recognize, you know, my, my power, I was like, Oh, I got something here. And I would say, any advice for like other Sistahs in Law is to find other Sistahs in Law.
Like, honestly, those are the people that you're going to call on. Those are the people that are going to like, you know, share the opportunities with you, advocate on your behalf, be these mentors and sponsors that are going to elevate your career. So the quicker you network and navigate in this industry and meet other like, you know, amazing Black women, I feel like the more powerful you will be. [00:32:00]
Taylor Washington: [00:32:00] I mean, I don't know how I say everything that Maya just said, like, again with other words, cause that's what I basically would want to do. But it is literally feels like a super power like she said. It is not intimidating. It doesn't suck. It's amazing, honestly, to be one of few Black women in a room because it gives you this opportunity. You are one we are representing, and it is a power because they need us in these rooms. And here I am. So it's exciting for me, honestly. And again, to reiterate everything that Maya said, I spent my career from day one looking for every other Sistah in Law so to say. I spend my time finding all the Black lawyers, finding all the Black agents, talking to the Black manager, talking to the Black in-house counsel.
It's truly my goal as a Black lawyer in this industry and as a Black as a Black person in the industry in general, not just lawyer to not be able to step in a room and not know another Black person in there, because that's also a benefit of being in a place where there's not many of [00:33:00] us.
You can really create this familial space for yourself and that can really help you out a lot. If you're in this space where there's not many, but you know all? That's powerful! That is powerful! Especially when we're in this movement now where Black creatives are on the rise, where Black stories are matter to people where people care about hearing Black voices. And what are those Black voices want?
They want Black people behind the scenes helping them with their deals now it's a, it's a movement now. And I felt so blessed to be in a position to be able to help them do that. So I feel incredibly blessed, honestly. And for me, it's always been a benefit to me. It's always been a pro and not a con.
Charity Gates: [00:33:34] I love that pride is, is so important honestly! Pride and confidence. And speaking of that, what was one of the most pivotal learning experiences in your career thus far?
Maya Day: [00:33:47] For me, it was honestly learning that that was my superpower. And I will be open and honest and say that when I started at my firm, I feel like actually during law school and even pre law school, I was nurtured by Black people.
Again, went to [00:34:00] Howard Law, Black professors, Black teachers. And involved with BESLA Black Entertainment Lawyers, like everyone's nurturing. Every space I went to like my direct supervisor was a Black Howard graduate. Something along those lines. So I feel like I was spoiled in that sense truly.
And when I came to 3 B, which is what we call my firm, it was almost like a reverse culture shock. And I had a feeling like, Oh my gosh, you know, I don't know all the white actors they're talking about like these white movies, like I didn't grow up on that. You know, my favorite movie Set It Off.
So like, I'm not even sure if my coworkers know what that movie is like. So I was just like, Oh my God, like, do I belong in this space truly. And I had a meeting at the BESLA annual conference with Khadijah again, we set up our like, that's normally our time to catch up every single year is at the annual if at no other point throughout the year. And we talked about like, just my approach and you know, how to approach being at [00:35:00] the firm and how to like navigate it.
It was in understanding that like, my difference actually is what's most beneficial here. And like, what kind of like, not what they need, but like really what they need. And me being here. So like I'm able to, you know, read scripts, understand context, like be able to say like, Oh yeah, I know where this tweet came from. Like, you know, some shows are based on quote unquote Black Twitter. That's my whole timeline. I mean, there is a Black Twitter, but to me it's just my, my Twitter,
Charity Gates: [00:35:27] Black Twitter is honestly a monument.
Maya Day: [00:35:31] It really is. And so, I think that for me, coming to my firm the learning experience was that like, you know, you are good enough to be wherever God places you in whatever space you're in. And that whatever you bring to the table is honestly what that job, that firm, that in-house position what they need. So don't ever feel inferior or that you don't belong, even if you're the only one in the room, like you make it happen. And I made sure that of course our first intern since I started [00:36:00] is a Black woman. Like I'm making sure that although I might be the first, I surely won't be the last. And yeah, that I feel like was the biggest learning experience that I had thus far career wise.
Taylor Washington: [00:36:09] I think something basically along the same line, but I will say my, what I've learned today and what I'm continuously learning is that confidence is key. When I first got to my job, I was so fearful of being wrong and messing up and making mistakes, because I thought that it was going to prove why I shouldn't be there.
And I didn't want to disappoint. I wanted to prove that I deserve to be there. I wanted to show my value. But it wasn't until I honestly gained confidence and one day it just clicked from multiple colleagues telling me this, that my career got so much better. They're like, sometimes you just have to do. Now don't do when you know you're absolutely wrong, but trust yourself. You're here because you're capable trust that. We would only hire you if we thought that you were capable. Trust that and do.
And that's when I [00:37:00] started excelling in my career, that's when I started getting deals done. That's when I started being able to manage deals on my own. That's when I started having less interaction with more senior lawyers and was able to kind of manage and take on projects on my own when I'm like, you know, what do it trust yourself and do it. And trust yourself enough to know that you won't do anything that you don't think is right.
And trust yourself enough to know that you're greater than your mistakes and that just because you make a mistake, that doesn't mean you're not a good lawyer. That doesn't mean you won't be successful. That's not the end of it. That's just the beginning because it's teaching you and grooming you to be an even better lawyer. So confidence is key. Trust yourself. Trust everything that you have gone through that's gotten you to the place that you are today and run with that and know that you will always be greater than any mistake that you make. And that every mistake is intentional and will be something that creates something more beautiful from that situation.
And when I took that in, I just, I ran with it one day. One day, I just woke up and I was like, I'm doing this, I'm responding to this. I'm not asking, I already know what the answer is. I know how to deal [00:38:00] with this problem. And you know it, if it's not right, somebody will tell me. But nine times out of 10, it was.
And I was like, wow. And people saw that and they appreciate it. And they're like stepping up. That's great cause you know this stuff and you can do that. You don't have to sit, don't let yourself fade to the background. You have to, when you know you know what you're doing, do it, do it and do it well.
And don't be afraid of messing up or being afraid of, of not being right. Again, I'm not saying to go and commit malpractice. That's not what I'm saying at all, but what I'm saying is I'm not saying if you ain't never heard of that concept before to start advising people. I'm not saying that.
But what I'm saying is trust yourself when you know that you know something and you can do it and that you're capable. Run with that and don't be fearful. And again, I think it's something that takes a long time something you'll be doing your entire career. Well, once I tapped into that, just the way that I approach situations, the confidence that I exude when I'm talking to my counterparts, it's [00:39:00] changed and people have noticed it because people say things about it and people appreciate it. So that's what I would say. Have confidence and trust yourself.
Maya Day: [00:39:07] Yeah, we all literally make mistakes. I feel like I made a mistake. My first big mistake probably was and it wasn't even big, but like last year on like a project I was doing, I made a mistake and the partner I was working with on the project, like we both it was like one of those things where I thought it was super huge.
Like I literally was at the gym having a panic attack. I'm like, Oh my God, they're going to fire me. And I was like, he talked to me afterwards and he said, this is, you know, a learning experience it's definitely not the end of the world. And you know, we bounce back. And he was like, I've made bigger mistakes in my career so trust me. Like, A) you're not going anywhere. B) it really is not that big of a deal. So I think oftentimes, especially with lawyers, we have a huge, you know, you're prone to tell all the good and like the successes you've had, but you never talk about the time you mess up. So like, yeah. Like, yeah. So now, you know, you just say it's my bad.
And generally the mistakes you [00:40:00] think you made literally are not the end of the world. You just feel that, that never that bad. Everyone learns and that's I feel like a lawyer thing we just expect to be perfect and we chase perfection, but there's literally no such thing. So you guys got it. The confidence, like Taylor sa
Charity Gates: [00:40:19] id is key.
There's so many quotable moments in here. I'm just like nodding my head to everything like, yes, this is so on point. But I, I actually didn't get a chance to send y'all this question, but it has been something that I've been thinking about. But typically in the legal industry and you all kind of touched on this, we often get told we have to follow certain paths and do this, that and the other in order to get to a certain place. And both of you all went to an HBCU, the H BCU H U um and you're now working in entertainment. How has having the HBCU law school experience impacted your access to opportunities and how do you think the [00:41:00] field can be better about recruiting from HBCU law schools?
Maya Day: [00:41:05] Well baby, the Howard brand is very strong. Um, and I learned that as I, of course graduated from law school. I'm like, wow, Howard don't care if you went to there for undergrad, don't care if you went there for law school. They could've took two classes at Howard, not even finished, they don't care, you know? So I feel like, you know, going to Howard specifically, it was an advantage a hundred percent. Like recruiters knew exactly where you we nt. They were more prone to like recruit specifically at Howard because they were getting, of course, a Black attorney that's, you know, top notch. So I feel like what the legal profession does need to do is recruit. And I feel like, you know, with some of our peers being in these spaces specifically in like big law, they've started to recruit at other HBCU law schools that don't get as much exposure, but of course have talented attorneys as well.
So I think that, you know, with us entering this space, and with us kind of breaking way, making way it leaves room [00:42:00] to like bring more people like us in. And if we all kind of have that same understanding, which all of us really do, it'll help to see the change more quickly than we all really expect.
Taylor Washington: [00:42:10] Yeah. And I mean, I completely agree with Maya. So for me, I went to Howard undergrad and Howard is very well-known for everything that we do. Let me say that. But, particularly for its fine arts program. Howard is known to breed people who are in the entertainment industry. Howard is literally the home . Did Wendy Raquel, like we do this, you know. And so that's just to kind of show you what comes out of Howard. Howard is, has always been known to breed artists and creatives. And so often times I find people who I went to college with who are now who were in fine arts and who are now writers and producers and on screen talent. And now they're like, Oh, you went to law school. [00:43:00] Howard people go hard for Howard. So they want a Howard lawyer. They've just been waiting on a Howard person to go to law school to be an entertainment lawyer. Because Howard we go really hard for our school! So for me, it's been a benefit because they will specifically want to work with somebody who gets them.
And, it's something that you kind of, you can see from the outside, but you don't really get in unless you're in the inside, but it's just, it's like family. You don't have to know that person. But to know that they went to Howard says a lot about them and, you know you know, their upbringing, you know their thoughts, you know their mentality, you know how they approach certain situations.
It's just something you know, about them based on the school that we went to because we know how that school raised us. Cause that's what Mother Howard does, she raises you. So it has been a benefit for me. I mean, so many people. Even like clients we've had who have been Howard alum, they're like they were already clients and I guess the firm like there's a Howard girl at the firm, I want her on every deal. I want her on my team. I want her to work with us. Like, please bring her on. And like, it's all l don't have to know me. They don't have to know my name. They [00:44:00] could have graduated 10, 12, 15 years before me.
It doesn't matter like it's family. And so they treat me as such as if I'm family. And so I love that. And again, Howard Howard is out here in the industry, so it honestly has been very, very beneficial. And then I mean, yeah, that's pretty much it. I mean, I agree with Maya when it comes to recruiting and stuff.
I honestly think that schools, we don't really have those issues that a lot of HBCUs have, um but Howard and Howard is well -known for the Black students who come out of it. So we don't tend to to have to prove ourselves when it comes to like having people recruit. We do still have to prove ourselves when we get into the world, but we don't necessarily have to prove ourselves when it comes to deciding where to get Black talent from.
So I'd say honestly, it's one of the best things that happened to me. My network was crazy for it. and then people outside in the, in the world knew what Howard was known for. So it kind of spoke for itself before I even entered the room.
Charity Gates: [00:44:51] Thank you for sharing that perspective. It's really incredible the reputation that Howard has. And then kind of winding down [00:45:00] and talking about future. I know right now, like the future is so unclear. But what do you see for yourself in terms of legacy building and the future of your career? Where do you see your career in the future?
Maya Day: [00:45:15] I would say that my career is going to be exactly where God intended to be and exactly where I pray it's going to be. I take it kind of day by day and a piece of advice I was given from another Black woman attorney in entertainment was that sometimes, you know, specifically when you're trying to get your foot in the door with entertainment you're like you're on the hustle and bustle, you know. You're chasing this dream, you're chasing this job.
And she told me like sometimes you have to like stop chasing the dream and realize that you're living it. So
Taylor Washington: [00:45:43] Say that again Maya Day.
Maya Day: [00:45:46] She says, sometimes you got to stop chasing the dream and realize that you're living it. And for me, it was just a reflection point because, you know, I'm exactly where I prayed.
I would be if not more. Kind of now, like I pray for this in law school, I worked for this in law [00:46:00] school. So I feel that, you know, whatever, I pray for God intends for me. And what I work hard for it, won't pass me. What's for me shall not pass me. So, I take it day by day. I give every day, you know, a hundred percent and wherever God leads me is where I shall follow.
Taylor Washington: [00:46:14] Amen. Amen Sister Day. I mean, I couldn't agree more. Honestly, like Maya said, like one day you wake up. And when you're an ambitious person and a hardworking person, it's hard to do this, but one day you wake up and you realize you're living the life that you always wanted to live. Doesn't mean that there's not more for you to get in that there's not more to obtain, but like you really just one day wake up and you soak in the fact that I actually got to exactly where I work to be and where I prayed to be.
And sometimes you got to live in that moment, because you have to remember where you were when you want it to be there. So that's kind of where I am as well. And like, honestly, I would say where I'm at in my career, as far as, long-term plan, I can't think anywhere further than being a good lawyer.
While we are fortunate to have both [00:47:00] gone to entertainment firms very early on in our career, which means we both being at smaller firms, got to get very hands-on experience and more hands on experience that you'll get when you're going to a larger place. At the same time, we're still both junior lawyers.
And with that means I'm still learning the art of negotiating. I'm still learning drafting techniques. I'm still learning, you know, how to review, how to draft, how to negotiate. There's so much I'm learning and I'm in the stage where I appreciate that. I appreciate all that I'm learning and I'm appreciating the application of what I'm learning and I'm appreciating still waking up every day and being in the point in my career where I'm doing something that I hadn't done before every day. Or I'm seeing something that I haven't seen before.
So right now, my only true focus especially being at my firm where I work with a bunch of brilliant and award winning and award nominated lawyers, is that I'm just enjoying the day to day of learning from some of the most brilliant people who've worked with some of the most incredible and well-known and well-respected creatives in the industry.
And so that's where I am. I'm trying to figure out [00:48:00] how I can think exactly how they think, how I can type just how they, you know, like I'm just I'm in a space where I want to absorb all that I can from them. And I just want at learn how to be a very good lawyer. And that takes a lot of time.
People don't wake up in two years and feel like they're the best lawyer. It takes time. So that's where that's really where I'm at. And, and yeah.
Charity Gates: [00:48:17] Wow. I just want to talk to y'all for the whole rest of the evening, but I know y'all got work to do probably. Ambitious women!
I won't take too much more of your time, but I like to end the podcast with our, our trademark question is who is your Sistah in Law?
And this can be any legal queen that you admire, a fellow colleague or even the celebrity lawyer that you love, but any Black woman lawyer that you're just inspired by.
Maya Day: [00:48:47] I'm on the podcast with one of mine right here. Um, I call Taylor random times of the day, whether it's venting, whether it's like, you know, confusion on a point, you know, you gotta have that [00:49:00] support system. And I am, I'm a hundred percent, you know, Rick Ross he talks about being self-made, that's not me! I'm not self-made. A lot of people poured into me. And you know, I, I owe it to them to pour into the next generation.
So, you know, I, have a bunch of sponsors and mentors who I lean on. Khadijah at BESLA, Endi, the whole kind of like BESLA board, various people. Like, I feel like I reach out to a lot of Black entertainment attorneys and nobody, everyone gives me the support that they can and advise me the best of their abilities.
So I would say that, you know, for sure one of my Sistahs in Law is on this podcast with me and I have a bunch, a bunch, a bunch.
Taylor Washington: [00:49:39] So this is totally not planned. I promise you, but literally, I mean, Maya takes the words right out of my mouth. L ,honestly. And I think it's such an important point to make that we both said that because oftentimes you, look up and you think that like you only have to look up for motivation and inspiration [00:50:00] and for people who can be influenced on your life when sometimes those people are side by side with you and across from you. And so I truly believe that Maya, that is my Sistah in Law for real. I mean I can call Maya during the day when I'm stressed. I'm calling Maya, like we're talking on the phone, like vision boarding. What's the, what's the future.
I can call Maya and be like, I'm working on this little deal chart. Like, what are some of the things I'm missing from these types of deals, you know? That's my girl, or here she goes, like, did you hear about this conference? Or did you hear about this event? You should register for that.
That. Is. My. Girl. And it's beautiful when you can have a relationship where like Maya and I do the same thing and we could very well, also be like, Oh, well let me just kind of help her because she's my competition. But no, it's not that like, we can both win and we want each other to both win. So it was nothing that like is mine that is not Maya's. And I feel like it's the same way with Maya, I don't feel like there's anything that's hers that's not mine as well. Um, Exactly! [00:51:00] Important to me as a person in general, which is even as important, because being a lawyer is one of the most stressful career paths you could ever decide to take. So just having people who care about you as they person is so important. So I just appreciate Maya. And oftentimes you come relationships and every relationship has a purpose.
Some really are just business. But I appreciate the fact that this is my Sistah in Law that I not only care about her professionally, but I care about her personally. Um, So definitely Maya Day. And then of course, like all the phenomenal Black women who have poured into me since day one. I was very fortunate when I got my first entertainment internships, I was actually reported to Black women. So Heather Hutchinson, who was at Scripps Networks with me at the time. And Rhonda Powell, who was at Scripps Network work with me, who is now, the chief legal officer at BuzzFeed [00:52:00] So many other women! The women that I currently work with. I work with some phenomenal Black women partners at my firm, Lisa Davis, Marcie Cleary, and both of these people have very much so been instrumental in my career and, and, you know. When I came into the firm, they were there with open arms and ready to like, give me the lay of the land and, and pour into me as many resources as they possibly could. So , I do appreciate that. But yeah, those are my Sistahs in Law, but also every Black woman that I meet in this industry is my Sistah in Law, because we all need each other at the end of the day. We all need each other and when I meet you, that's the relationship that we have now because we're, there's few of us and we need each other.
Charity Gates: [00:52:36] I'm so inspired by y'all right now. My heart is so more.
Taylor Washington: [00:52:41] Awwww
Charity Gates: [00:52:44] Um,
Taylor Washington: [00:52:46] I love it. That's really what it's about, honestly.
Maya Day: [00:52:48] And we just gained a new Sistah in Law at the
Taylor Washington: [00:52:54] Exactly.
Charity Gates: [00:52:54] Yup. I'm happy to join the club. So where [00:53:00] can the audience follow y'all's work and follow you all, generally?
Maya Day: [00:53:04] Of course you can always check me out on LinkedIn again, it's just I, as well as Taylor, like, you know, entertainment, you're often required to be on social media and have a social media presence.
So all my handles are for Twitter and Instagram are @ Its Maya Day Esquire. All one word. so yeah, you can follow me on, those social media. I tweet a lot about what's going on in the industry. I tweet about reality television shows. So if you're into that, you'll definitely love my tweets.
Um, yes Married at First Sight is a big hit on. I tweet about different, you know, film festivals. Well, I tweet about film festivals, but on my Instagram page, I talk about, you know, some film festivals I attend and like my favorite movies or Black film. Cause I just love Black culture. So if you're into that and then follow me.
Taylor Washington: [00:53:55] Yes. And I'm on Instagram and my Instagram, I'm like looking at my phone. I'm like, what [00:54:00] is my Instagram? My Instagram is Taylor Washington, E S Q. And I'm also on Twitter T R Washington, Esq and same with Maya,all things, entertainment, all things, Black Girl Magic, all things Black culture, everything in between.
So
Charity Gates: [00:54:16] Amazing. I just followed y'all too. So you got an extra follower.
There
Maya Day: [00:54:23] we
Charity Gates: [00:54:23] go.
Maya Day: [00:54:24] I see you. There we go.
Charity Gates: [00:54:27] Thank you so much, ladies, for agreeing to do this. I I'm so grateful that you all took time out of your day to participate with me.
Taylor Washington: [00:54:36] And good to you Charity like congratulations to you for recreating this platform and creating A resource for Black women because it's important.
And it starts with one person who made the decision that we needed to. So congratulations to you and proud of you for accepting that call and really going after it.
Charity Gates: [00:54:54] Thank you! All thanks are to God, honestly, he inspired me with this , uh, idea, [00:55:00]
Maya Day: [00:55:00] Follow the vision, let them lead you.
Charity Gates: [00:55:06] love Taylor and Maya? They are both incredibly smart and talented young lawyers. I'm still so inspired by their words. Please be sure to show them support with a follow on social media. If you're listening on Apple Podcasts, please leave us a review so that more people can hear these powerful discussions. Let us know your thoughts on the episode via social media and follow to get updates on the next episode. As always, please share the podcast with someone who may be interested or who may benefit from these discussions.
You can find us on social media on Instagram at Sistahs in Law, on Twitter at Sistahs in Law Pod, and like our Facebook page. For a full transcript of this week's episode, go to the website @ wwwdotsistahsinlaw.org. Thank you for tuning in this week and stay tuned for our next Sistah in Law. Until then, peace [00:56:00] and love!
